Another discussion for literary purposes. Since we have a thread on bladed weapons, perhaps we can also support a discussion on sci-fi guns and how their possible construction?
Generally, I tend to work from the "Hard Sci-Fi" kind of things; using existing technology for ideas (sort of like Killzone or Aliens.) Energy weapons are uncommon and at times unpredictable, slug throwers are still around and have gotten far more deadly; even incorporating electromagnetic "rail" technology in some settings, and other weapons from the past (like the flamethrower) might make a reappearance thanks to more advanced technology.
But this is just my particular focus, what are your thoughts?
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The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
I go for the hard sci-fi weapons myself, though it’s more of balance of slug throwers and energy weapons. As you said, mass drivers have gotten more deadly because of rail system and my universe inertial mass reduction systems. Energy weapons a less common but hard to find, plasma weapons, lasers, high energy razor systems. (Gamma ray lasers) though particle weapons are near non-existent in my universe. Aside from these are BOWs, one of the nations from my universe makes extensive use of bio organic weapons as ground troops and infiltration, along with including them on KEP missiles.
Missiles, missiles, missiles, same as always made faster thanks to Inertial mass reduction allow them to be speedy and we have the standard war heads. Nanite, nuclear, antimatter, High explosive, and BOW war head types.
Interesting that this thread comes up. I just bought a 12 gauge double barrel shotgun over the holidays - for keeping with me in my truck. It is Coachgun configuration; it has a shorter-than-standard barrel.
In response to the thread, though, I think I would prefer energy weapons over other types. For one, they would require less cleaning, and when they need to be reloaded, you either pop in a power pack or plug the weapon into the wall. Nice, if you ask me.
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Interesting that this thread comes up. I just bought a 12 gauge double barrel shotgun over the holidays - for keeping with me in my truck. It is Coachgun configuration; it has a shorter-than-standard barrel.
In response to the thread, though, I think I would prefer energy weapons over other types. For one, they would require less cleaning, and when they need to be reloaded, you either pop in a power pack or plug the weapon into the wall. Nice, if you ask me.
One important innovation that I always incorporate into my scifi weaponry is caseless ammunition for slug throwers. Ammo becomes lighter, easier to manufacture (well, not as much metal needed anyway) and a soldier can carry more of it. Plus it's not too beyond the reach of science already.
Bullpup configurations might be more common in the future.
Gauss rifles are also fun to contemplate; imagine instead of using powder and metal all you need is ball bearings going at supersonic speeds....
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Home is a state of mind. Doesn't matter if you're in a golden palace, a cottage nestled in the mountains, or under a tattered blanket in a haystack, if you make the ground beneath your head a home, then you are home.
Erf, I think the only thing that would be appropriate in this situation would be this.
I got one better.
Anyway... moving on. Hmmmm, how to continue?
Interesting points Rick and I do have to give you one of them, energy weapons (lasers at least) should be easy to recharge. Cleaning... I imagine it would depend on how new the technology is. But besides the lens (which would really only exist in a laser weapon,) you have the contacts that connect the power supply to the weapon, the mechanism for generating the projectile... Probably as many parts as you have in a regular rifle.
That's not to say they don't have purpose, a really fine beam of light (of the right wavelengths) can pierce targets from across great distances if focused properly. Some of my characters do carry laser rifles for that reason, sniping or sharpshooting. I do have some energy weapons, but they're mostly of the plasma and laser variety. Nothing particularly out there like Phasers or particle weapons.
Unlike Reaper however, I tend to shy away from bio-weapons. Bacteria and virsues have a tendency to mutate, something writers don't always take into account, and once they move onto infecting species other then the ones they were designed for, all bets are off. More complex organisms are even worse. Non-sapients or lobotomized lifeforms you can probably work with, training them to be domesticated animals like dogs or horses, but sapients with free will? I just have trouble believing that.
If you have free thought, you'll always have beings that will disagree, you only can control how many you have and how they conduct themselves. And... yeah, I suppose that the only biotech civilization I created is an extinct one speaks volumes on what I think of the subject; that it's complex and there are so many ways you can make one little mistake that brings the whole thing crashing down.
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The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
I actually saw a great special on the Discovery channel a couple months ago, theorizing what future warfare in space would most likely be like. For example, in the near future, if/when humanity colonizes the moon, and say, one colony goes to war with another, odds are it would be more like a quick raid. They said it would be most likely because a moon base would be made out of light materials, and even a few bullet holes could deal serious damage, let alone an explosion. Same thing goes for a space suit. On Earth if you get nicked by a bullet, no big deal, a couple stitches and you're good to go. In space, however, if you get nicked, suddenly you're losing oxygen and suit pressurization, and there would be a good chance no one can get to you in the crucial moments, or even seconds you have left, let alone a shot to the torso.
Other things they talked about were 'Rods of God'. Essentially non ballistic missiles that do serious damage with their kinetic energy. I mean, take asteroids for example. You get one that's about a mile across, and it has the potential to destroy a city and then some. Take a steel pole of, say, 15x2 feet, and launch it at 15K mph or greater, and it has some serious destructive power.
Energy weapons. Of course, they talked about lasers. The biggest benefit a laser has is being able to hit a target almost instantaneously, as it travels at the speed of light. However, this works best in space, where it's a vacuum and nothing is in it's way (except the target). But once you angle it down at a planet with an atmosphere, the laser will begin to lose its advantage because it is, after all, light, and it will refract off of the molecules in the air. Obviously, the effect of this would differ greatly depending on where the target is, higher or lower in the atmosphere.
And now for what I think, at least, pertaining to something like plasma. This would be a horrific weapon, yet highly effective. To me, plasma can do a lot of damage in more ways than one. Say a plasma 'bolt' hits a target that is not protected by armor. If the target doesn't die immediately, it probably will very soon after, as the bolt will have caused a very large, VERY severe burn. Depending on how large the bolt was (compare the Covenant Plasma rifles from HALO to the Predators' shoulder plasma weapon), it has the potential to liquidate it's target completely. Say it hits an armored target. Because plasma is hot liquid gas, it won't reflect off of something like a mirror like a beam of light would, or an angled surface like ballistic projectiles might (though a strong electro magnetic force would most likely repel it). The plasma bolt would hit the armor, and (again, depending on the size of the bolt) spare the target. However, depending on what the armor is made out of, now the target has to deal with a chunk of extremely hot, most likely melting, piece of body armor. Depending on what the armor is, let's say metal of some sort, it is most likely now melting onto the target, causing great pain and burns, so even if it didn't kill them, they are effectively unable to fight.
Anyway, this is pretty much what my views are on the subject of these kinds of weapons, and I apply a great deal of it to my universe.
And now for what I think, at least, pertaining to something like plasma. This would be a horrific weapon, yet highly effective. To me, plasma can do a lot of damage in more ways than one. Say a plasma 'bolt' hits a target that is not protected by armor. If the target doesn't die immediately, it probably will very soon after, as the bolt will have caused a very large, VERY severe burn. Depending on how large the bolt was (compare the Covenant Plasma rifles from HALO to the Predators' shoulder plasma weapon), it has the potential to liquidate it's target completely. Say it hits an armored target. Because plasma is hot liquid gas, it won't reflect off of something like a mirror like a beam of light would, or an angled surface like ballistic projectiles might (though a strong electro magnetic force would most likely repel it). The plasma bolt would hit the armor, and (again, depending on the size of the bolt) spare the target. However, depending on what the armor is made out of, now the target has to deal with a chunk of extremely hot, most likely melting, piece of body armor. Depending on what the armor is, let's say metal of some sort, it is most likely now melting onto the target, causing great pain and burns, so even if it didn't kill them, they are effectively unable to fight.
Ah yes, plasma. Honestly, plasma always struck me as an incredibly unstable projectile. You have to superheat gasses to a temperature where they're a completely different state of matter, then you have to maintain that temperature and force the gun to eject the projectile WITHOUT the "bolt" melting the gun or backfiring in your face.
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The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
Present-day plasma applications include things like melting vats of steel and cutting metals.
Plasma, once created, has to be maintained at a superhot temperature. Moreover, it takes huge amounts of electricity to maintain it in its current known form. You could build a plasma bolt easily enough in a rifle, persay, but once you released it from the rifle, how would you maintain it? It would begin to cool the instant that it left the rifle.
That in itself would give a plasma weapon a very short range and very limited applications. Also, there are no batteries known to man yet that can be used to power a plasma rifle. The only practical mounting for a plasma weapon would be on a ship or large ground vehicles such as tanks - all platforms that were large enough to support the power source. Then the plasma weapon's limited range would make it impractical for most of these applications.
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loud noises are so unsubtle.
of course they're to the point perhaps,
but they're so completely lacking in gosh wow,
not to mention all the pretty effects and unexpected capabilities
of beam weapons, with not only pretty pyrotecnics,
but endless ways of being effective without having to be leathal.
i mean you can do that with a gun too if you're really good with it,
but the odds, i mean there's often good reason to WANT to be able to ask questions later, plus it just not the same to say oops and apologise to someone after they're dead.
no no, guns just aren't the thing.
plus i mean, you know, beams, if they're subtle enough can pick locks or carve your initials on durasteel bulkheads, the list really goes quite on,
where as what can you do with a gun? suicidally blow a pressure wall, kill some one, or mame them, possible deter someone, but only if they're sane.
Another favorite weapon of mine is the Particle Projection Gun (PPG). Variants on this include Particle Beams and Particle Bolts.
A Particle Beam was widely used in the science fiction show Babylon 5. The Shadows used it as did the Membari.
A Particle Beam (or bolt) would use highly charge particles. Or, if you will, really, really hot sand, focused in a beam or packed into a bolt. The beam variant of this weapon would be much like a sand blaster, but super heated - its chief application being scouring away armor. A strong enough beam could cut right through enemy ships hulls - much as they were shown to do in the show Babylon 5. A particle bolt could be used as troop-suppression. Fire a bolt the size of say, a basketball at enemy lines, and enemy troops would find themselves suddenly amidst a cloud of superheated sand. Skin would be instantly burned off. Any polymers would be very rapidly melted and pitted, and any moving parts in things like armor and weapons would become mired with these particles.
Against enemy troops though, I think the most deadly weapon would be a laser. Hit an enemy any where that the laser penetrates to flesh, and the liquid in the flesh is instantly flashed to steam by the heat of the laser. Flesh would explode as a result of this steam-flashing - blowing off limbs (if the laser penetrated a limb), or just outright killing an enemy soldier if the hit occurred anywhere in the torso area. The operator of the laser wouldn't need to be precise, at all, either. Moreover, because of a laser's nature, all an operator would need to do is sweep the beam. It is easy as pie to hit a target with a garden hose, after all. Troops would not stand a chance against a force that was equipped with lasers.
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I will just round off my favourites from video games then discuss later... GDI Ion Cannon Satellite Network (combined with a liquid tiberium chain reaction)
BFG 9000 (Bio Field Gun or Big f***ing Gun) from Doom (Doom 3 in this case)
I got one better.
Unlike Reaper however, I tend to shy away from bio-weapons. Bacteria and virsues have a tendency to mutate, something writers don't always take into account, and once they move onto infecting species other then the ones they were designed for, all bets are off. More complex organisms are even worse. Non-sapients or lobotomized lifeforms you can probably work with, training them to be domesticated animals like dogs or horses, but sapients with free will? I just have trouble believing that.
If you have free thought, you'll always have beings that will disagree, you only can control how many you have and how they conduct themselves. And... yeah, I suppose that the only biotech civilization I created is an extinct one speaks volumes on what I think of the subject; that it's complex and there are so many ways you can make one little mistake that brings the whole thing crashing down.
I notice a lot of people seem to shy away from bio technology. On a side note BOWs are lobotomized, or given implants apon their creation if the needed subject needs a full functioning mind, these force them the serve their creators wishes, should they ask the normal questions some intelligent species do. "Why am i here, who am i, what am i, what is my purpose." they would be told exactly why they where made. Those that refuse follow, die.
I notice a lot of people seem to shy away from bio technology. On a side note BOWs are lobotomized, or given implants apon their creation if the needed subject needs a full functioning mind, these force them the serve their creators wishes, should they ask the normal questions some intelligent species do. "Why am i here, who am i, what am i, what is my purpose." they would be told exactly why they where made. Those that refuse follow, die.
I'll have to remember to mention slave empires if I ever do a thread on world building in general. Without digressing too... ah forget it. What you describe sounds very resource intensive and unless your civilization mastered the mass-production of perfectly flawless control mechanisms (either through nano-manufacturing or some method of cloning with regenerative DNA that constantly reconstructs itself to prevent negative mutation,) there is some "realism" wiggle room for defective (or biologically retarded in the case of your biotech civilization) products with rather "interesting" results.
Secondly, slaves (or any discontent population for that matter) are a major Achilies heel for any stellar empire with enemies. A smart enemy faced with genetically-engineered super-soldiers would likely consider other plans of attack. If you can get your enemy's thralls to revolt then a lot of the heavy lifting would be done for you. At the very least, productivity would be down and there would be less resources to spend on the frontlines. At the most, you'd have a fledging nation of bio-engineered workers, scientists, or soldiers you could ally with or manipulate into doing more of your dirty work.
If your empire, and so far everything I'm mentioning is largely speculation at this point, somehow lost control of the implants downloading "Feel Good" propaganda into their peons' brains; things would start to unravel depending on how long the service is down and just what tasks were delegated to slave labor. Having your factory slaves suddenly unionize is one thing, having your perfectly cultured super-soldiers up in arms is a different thing all together.
In review, there are three major problems I see with the scenerio you propose.
- Your propose solution strikes me as very resource intensive. Developing control implants for every slave would consume large amounts of resources no matter how you slice it. Resources that could probably be used elsewhere as well. What are they not building by building a slave population that would do their bidding?
- Unless your civilization perfected a way of flawlessly producing goods in bulk, any manufacturing technique is going to produce defects regardless of whether it is biological (you're welcome to take me up on that, I know enough botany to know how biological processes can go wrong) or not.
- Slaves are NOT a benefit to an empire in wartime, they are a liablity the enemy can and will exploit if he wants to succeed and bring your nation to heel; especially if slaves staff your factories and farms. Whatever control technique you use will be compensated for. Whatever you use, he WILL counter if he wants to win, period. Naturally, sheer idiocy is generally exempt from this ruling; the human generals of the 40k universe generally losing as many fights as they win because of pure stupidity.
Back on topic: On the subject of biological weapons, one possiblity I haven't heard mentioned is the possiblity of introducing foreign species of plants and animals with the intent of destroying your enemy's food supply (one of the oldest rules of warfare, control the supply lines.) In particular, engineering super predators to devour their livestock and weeds to choke their food crops. Course, then the problem is controlling and cleaning up the mess you made once the smoke's cleared... Best to engineer a weakness and not tell your enemy about it at that point.
Psion's Signature
The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
In review, there are three major problems I see with the scenerio you propose.
- Your propose solution strikes me as very resource intensive. Developing control implants for every slave would consume large amounts of resources no matter how you slice it. Resources that could probably be used elsewhere as well. What are they not building by building a slave population that would do their bidding?
It is resource intensive, in wartime entire planets can get consumed to power the war effort. Though this is rare due to the recycling of ships, and bio matter from dead BOW's. Implants are no a problem at all as they dirt cheap. Not only are they used in the engineered critters themselves, they are in almost any citizen though not for control proposes. These implants are used for enhancement of neural functions, augmented reality overlap, Cortex uplink,(My universe's version of the internet) etc.
Originally Posted by Psion
- Unless your civilization perfected a way of flawlessly producing goods in bulk, any manufacturing technique is going to produce defects regardless of whether it is biological (you're welcome to take me up on that Reaper, I know enough botany to know how that
can go wrong) or not.
No manufacturing system is 100% perfect. Those the published claims that come from the "Body factories" is 99.9% even with that statically one in every one thousand or so creatures made would have some sort of defect. Those that do not meet the standard can be removed before completion and recycled. Though rare some have slipped through before and made to the military. Those that have been found are executed on site. These also serve a secondary function as the general population can call on these factories in peace time to make designer pets. This is legal, and form of intelligence on par with high level self awareness is illegal. Though there are ways around this if one knows the right people.
Originally Posted by Psion
- Slaves are NOT a benefit to an empire in wartime, they are a liablity the enemy can and will exploit if he wants to succeed and bring your nation to heel; especially if slaves staff your factories and farms. Whatever control technique you use will be compensated for. Whatever you use, he WILL counter if he wants to win, period. Naturally, sheer idiocy is generally exempt from this ruling; the human generals of the 40k universe generally losing as many fights as they win because of pure stupidity.
No bio engineered begin is used in any factory or agricultural application. This is strictly forbidden as it is to great a risk. There are two ways to counter the implants, either remove them, or shut them down. Doing either of these will kill the critter as these also regulate low body functions such as heart rate, breathing etc. They are hardened against EMP and most convention electronic counter measures. So this tactic is useless against them much to the dismay of a few former enemies of the GSA.
*reads Reapers' post*
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Okay, moving on, what be your sci-fi firearm of choice for a villain with no morals? For me, it would have to be the acid spary gun or a weapon that used biotoxins or extremely hazardous waste to do damage. The last option in particular would be extremely ironic. After all, he's recycling as he carries on his nefarious plot! Surely he can't be all bad!
Psion's Signature
The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
*reads Reapers' post*
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Okay, moving on, what be your sci-fi firearm of choice for a villain with no morals? For me, it would have to be the acid spary gun or a weapon that used biotoxins or extremely hazardous waste to do damage. The last option in particular would be extremely ironic. After all, he's recycling as he carries on his nefarious plot! Surely he can't be all bad!
lol i only have one answer for this, the Half life 2 gravity gun.
Yikes. Can't believe I haven't posted yet! I personally see the general idea of our firearms to be used for a good time into the future. If you think about most of the other idea here require someway to store very large amounts on energy is a form thats easily carried in bulk by people. On the other hand with today's electronics and advancement in materials the modern firearm is getting a very futuristic facelift.
My XM-9A1 is an example of a weapon that uses microchips and electronic controlled fuses to enhance the effectiveness of ordinary projectiles.
Believe it or not this technology was actually built and proven by the US military. In tests it improve a soldier's tactical ability by something like 400% but the sheer cost of the weapon was extremely large and its tendency to break in the field made it an un-economic choice. But with the ever dropping price of computer parts and tougher materials this could be the future of warfare
Yikes. Can't believe I haven't posted yet! I personally see the general idea of our firearms to be used for a good time into the future. If you think about most of the other idea here require someway to store very large amounts on energy is a form thats easily carried in bulk by people. On the other hand with today's electronics and advancement in materials the modern firearm is getting a very futuristic facelift.
Believe it or not this technology was actually built and proven by the US military. In tests it improve a soldier's tactical ability by something like 400% but the sheer cost of the weapon was extremely large and its tendency to break in the field made it an un-economic choice. But with the ever dropping price of computer parts and tougher materials this could be the future of warfare
Welcome to the discussion Dusty.
I generally have to agree with you, especially for near-future settings like cyberpunk. Barring new developments in battery technology, energy weapons are a unlikely affair (although farther into the future those words might have to be eaten.) Projectile firearms will continue to shoot faster, straighter, and father while other developments will allow them to hold more bullets.
As for the tech in your XM-9A1, that development doesn't surprise. Well, the fact that it's here does. The fact that it got sent back to wait until it was cheaper and more durable doesn't however. Military stuff has a tendency to go through a lot...
Psion's Signature
The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
*reads Reapers' post*
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Okay, moving on, what be your sci-fi firearm of choice for a villain with no morals? For me, it would have to be the acid spary gun or a weapon that used biotoxins or extremely hazardous waste to do damage. The last option in particular would be extremely ironic. After all, he's recycling as he carries on his nefarious plot! Surely he can't be all bad!
I've got one.
A Star Bomb, i.e. a weapon that can be fired into a star which will cause it to go Red Giant, swallowing up every neighboring planet (including the one that's giving you problems).
A Star Bomb, i.e. a weapon that can be fired into a star which will cause it to go Red Giant, swallowing up every neighboring planet (including the one that's giving you problems).
Hmmm, how about an anti-matter planet-buster, sort of like the weapon used at the end of Wing Commander III? Same end result but less mess and more opprotunities to strip the rest of the system bare.
Psion's Signature
The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
A Star Bomb, i.e. a weapon that can be fired into a star which will cause it to go Red Giant, swallowing up every neighboring planet (including the one that's giving you problems).
Why not a bomb that does the reverse (kinda)? Turns the star into a black hole.
You could use a type of high powered gravity drill, and inertia control systems to effect a star, use it fry planets with multi million degree plasma. The Dark Core from sins use a similar system to protect their capital world, burn incoming enemy fleets on demand.
First off making a black hole out of a star would ungodly difficult. Why? You have to find a way to compress all the matter to the size of an electron. Also it wouldn't DESTROY the planets around it as its overall gravity field remains the same. Why? Because it's MASS didn't change only its density. Think about it. The closest you can get to the center of gravity of the sun 1,391,000 kilometers. But if you shrink that down to one nano-meter and you see why stuff gets trapped. Sol as all of the gravity of a black hole right now. Its not going to suck anything in.
Now making a star go nova or shutting it down is simpler. The simplest albiet less efficient way is to introduce a molocule to the core that readily bonds with hydrogen and shuts down the fusion that powers the star. I say enifcient because you'll need enough of said molocule the mass of the hydrogen IN the star. Alot.
Turning the star into a black hole could still be useful if for some reason you wanted any civilizations in the system to starve to death so that you could loot the place. If you've the technology to do it, though, there are probably better ways to get what you want.
Interesting thoughts but we're drifting away from personal weapons. Anyone have any more ideas on more ballistic weapons?
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The fandom can argue otherwise all it wishes but the simple truth is that there is no creature more curious then Man. For without Man, there could be no fandom.
Guns, Firearms, and Boomsticks
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Originally Posted by Rick Canaan
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